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Flinch

Post  Doug on Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:15 am

I have been pondering the whole crit immunity situation over the last week or so and came up with the following:

Pets do not need full crit immunity because of the healing mechanics applied to them. Even so, Turtles become effectively crit immune (and much more besides) through Spell Shield for a short period. The real thing which is a danger is the double crit scenario and is RNG on the level of Mace/TnT stuns (if not worse).

Bearing this in mind I propose we should not be aiming for full crit immunity but rather double crit immunity. One way to achieve this is through petitioning Blizz for a talent like this:

Flinch
Your pet cannot be critically struck in melee/reduces your pets chance to be critically struck in melee by 2% for 5 secs after receiving a critical strike.

Is there no other way that this might be done at all? Does the Warp ability push crits off the table?
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Re: Flinch

Post  Durante on Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:37 pm

Pets being unable to gain crit immunity is still very real glass ceiling on what pets are able to tank. For example a pet is currently unable to tank or OT Patchwerk on heroic, as Patchwerk will hit a well geared tank for about 25k so it would crit for 50k. With every buff under the sun, best in slots for stamina, and full stamina gems and enchants our pets will be maxed out around 46-47k. With a 1.4% chance each attack against our pet will crit its possible that you could tank Patchwerk without being crit, but at some point during that fight you're pet is probably going to eat a crit and get one shot.

Depending on avoidance formulas for our pets, its extremely unlikely that pets would be able to push crits off the attack table even with Warp. For same level mobs, with a 5% chance to be missed, 3% additional from Scorpid Sting, 11% dodge from talents, and the assumed 5% each for dodge, parry and block (that number may be wrong, but its logical), our pets would have 34% avoidance. With an additional 50% chance to be missed from Warp and 4% crit reduction from Grace of the Mantis, each attack would still have a 15% chance to result in a normal hit, and a 1% chance to result in a crit. Against a raid boss level mob those numbers rise to 17.4% chance to be hit normally and a 1.6% chance to be hit with a crit. Even though the numbers for avoidance probably are a bit off, and our pets probably gain additional dodge through agility buffs, its very unlikely that these would add up to fill that gap.

That being said, while I would prefer a way to get crit immunity, I'd certainly take Flinch over nothing.
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Re: Flinch

Post  Doug on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:17 pm

My thinking is that giving the odd mechanics of pet tanking Blizz is thinking that a recovery from a crit is much simpler on a pet than any other tank. Given this fact it seems highly unlikely that we would ever actually get full immunity without major nerfs in other areas.

Ironically Patch is one fight where pets could MT better than OT because as far as I understand it pets are unable to take hatefuls anyway, so in this particular instance it isn't actually a real concern.
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Re: Flinch

Post  Nordh on Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:26 am

Pets are indeed immune to hateful blows, which I've learned the hard way. At the beginning of Naxx I was going to help soaking the blows, but couldn't, no matter of high on HP or aggro I was.

Main tanking him is much easier, the MT takes less damage. The only problem is that it is a nuke fight, so you need to get your pets threat up very high to avoid the enrage timer. I will write an article about that in my Tanking Naxx featurette.

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Re: Flinch

Post  Doug on Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:35 am

I seem to remember something like the threat doesn't matter in this fight. Somewhere in my hazy recollection of the first time doing this someone mentioned that he picks up the first two people that comes in range and then basically ignores aggro tables for the rest of the fight, but will not target pets for hateful strikes (for obvious reasons).

I will dig around to see if I am wrong, which is likely.

I have checked it out and it seems a little more complicated than just the threat table would suggest. The problem I can foresee is that if the pet does not register as a target for hatefuls most likely a melee dps would instead even if the pet is leading on threat, which is bad...
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Re: Flinch

Post  Nordh on Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:20 am

Generally, highest on health that doesn't main tank will take the hateful blows. But for some reason I've heard that the off tank should always be second on aggro, not sure why on that one. He will run loose if someone overaggroes though.

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Re: Flinch

Post  Doug on Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:11 am

It seems there are two seperate ways of picking the hateful target:

1) Second on aggro
2) Highest on HP
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Re: Flinch

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