Big News!

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Big News!

Post  Doug on Sun May 31, 2009 7:22 am

We think it's probably time to let pets scale, to some extent, with resilience and spell pen.

The way pets scale from the master's stats was implemented (on our side) in a slightly clunky way which made it difficult to add additional stats. In BC, it took some effort to kill a pet so it wasn't a burning problem for us. In LK, we have bumped up pet health a few times, but we are thinking now that the balance will never work right without some crit mitigation. Pets will never scale right with gear as long as the master improves in ways that don't benefit the pet.

We have a new way to let pets scale, and assuming it works, we should be able to give the pets scale with all relevant stats from the master, from hit to haste to crit. Some things will need to scale at 100%, since it's silly to have your pet inherit part of your +hit.

No promises until you actually see it live, but that's what we are thinking at the moment.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17367882841&pageNo=1&sid=1#19
Smile
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Re: Big News!

Post  Kurasu on Sun May 31, 2009 1:47 pm

I'm not going to get too excited until I see it live. Because who knows how much reduction in base stats pets will get to bring them to a more equal number. And who knows what talents might get changed and adjusted.

That said.... YAY FOR EXPERTISE ON TANKING PETS! And depending on the % that trickles down, it may even make the +strength tanking gear slightly interesting for pet tanking. Smile
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Re: Big News!

Post  Durante on Sun May 31, 2009 2:38 pm

You're forgetting the most important part of this change and the reason why I'm so excited about this announcement: Resilience. Say hello to crit immune pets.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to finish preparing for a fight I've been looking forward to for a long time. Smile
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Re: Big News!

Post  Nordh on Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:05 am

Crit immunity... I think I'm starting to cry. Tears of joy. Laughing

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Re: Big News!

Post  Durante on Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:19 pm

I'm a bit torn as to whether or not to post in that thread. I'd like for them to remove the Grace of the Mantis and Roar of Sacrifice as a requirement for Wild Hunt, as its very likely we'll have crit immune pets from wearing PvP gear for the stam anyway, then we'd have to spend 3 points with 0 PvE benefit whatsoever in order to get Wild Hunt.

However, I'm kind of afraid to even bring it up. silent What if reminding them that they'll be making pet tanks PvE crit immune causes them to nerf pets somehow, either through removing some of their present defensive capability, or making their resilience not work against NPCs? Part of me suspects that they want pets to be PvE crittable, as an upper limit to what they can do, and if so I don't want to remind them of it. silent
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Re: Big News!

Post  Doug on Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:31 am

Eventually it will dawn on them that the 3.0 changes started them on a slippery slope to pet tanking being the role of BM. The only way to back out of it now is to either let BM wallow, make BM uber awesomesauce again, or do a mass revert on pet talents, making them all vanilla flavoured, in which case BM will still be either leet or sucky.

But I do agree that the dependencies in the pet trees have to go, I can see why Avoidance is linked after looking at the pet trees from a BM dps perspective (they are the only spec that can get all the dps talents), but ironically on any fight where AoE avoidance is not the thing killing your pet (i.e. you have to move it back or it has magic damage dot ticking away) BM is actually harmed by the present setup. RoS tied to Grace may have made some little sense when RoS could be put on other players.

Sometimes the simple solution is really the best one, there is no sane reason to avoid it.
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Re: Big News!

Post  Ihlos on Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:28 pm

Durante wrote:You're forgetting the most important part of this change and the reason why I'm so excited about this announcement: Resilience. Say hello to crit immune pets.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to finish preparing for a fight I've been looking forward to for a long time. Smile

Id like to hear your strategy on this, are you just going to wear all the frost gear or have a frost resist tank come in for frozen blows. You wont be able to taunt back off the frost tank, so how will this work? Obviously shell shield and great resistance will help, but the buff is 20 seconds long. Id love to take this guy on if its possible.

The other thing is the 8-9 minute enrage. Not saying you can't do it, i would never say that, just really curious as to what youre planning.
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Re: Big News!

Post  Durante on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:31 am

Ihlos wrote:Id like to hear your strategy on this, are you just going to wear all the frost gear or have a frost resist tank come in for frozen blows. You wont be able to taunt back off the frost tank, so how will this work? Obviously shell shield and great resistance will help, but the buff is 20 seconds long. Id love to take this guy on if its possible.

The other thing is the 8-9 minute enrage. Not saying you can't do it, i would never say that, just really curious as to what youre planning.
I plan on tanking through the frozen blows. My extreme stam set contains the three pieces of FR mail gear and the FR ring as they're both best in slots for stamina, and when combined with raid buffs results in over 400 frost resist, more than the tank would have. Combined with Great resistance this should result in I believe about 60-65% frost damage reduction (I'm still a little rough on the redesign of resist mechanics in WotLK).

For the enrage timer, our raids are extremely hunter heavy, almost every raid has five hunters. I plan on having them stay on Hodir the entire encounter and rely on the other DPS to free the NPCs, allowing us to place as much of our DPS in characters with hypothetically limitless threat caps as possible. Hopefully we'll be able to pull in one or two rogues who's main jobs will be providing Tricks of the Trade, and lining up their DPS cooldowns during TotT's duration for increased threat. Additionally I plan on manuvering my pet into the Moonkin lights to increase its attack speed by 100%, but I have to test this to make sure the buff actually applies to pets.

Don't plan on seeing anything on this until the resilience change goes through though. With presently achievable levels of pet HP this guy can 1-shot crit a pet easily. As for whether or not this will be possible after the scaling changes, who knows? When I brought this up even the other members that were supportive of the Sapph idea responded with " Shocked .......... no way....... not even close." The more theory crafting I do regarding this fight the more some of them have been warming to the idea of trying it, but are still extremely skeptical.
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Re: Big News!

Post  Nordh on Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:02 am

At the moment, yes, the crits are way too big for a pet to handle. And the lack of mitigation can mean that even normal hits might be too heavy. He hits like a real train.

One of the best parts is that you never have to move your pet from either deep freeze or biting cold.

Are you planning on trying on 10 man before 25 man? I'm getting excited just thinking about the possibilities ;D

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Re: Big News!

Post  Durante on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:54 am

Nordh wrote:He hits like a real train.
Yeah he does. That's why I'm not entirely sure its possible. Fortunately though, with full talents for armor our pets can achieve nearly traditional tank levels of armor mitigation, so while he will get hit much more often, he won't get getting hit that are much harder than another tank. The way I think of it is that if he can't be 1 shot and the only damage is coming from the melee swing timer, with Blood of the Rhino, Spirit Bond, and some fantastic healers, its hypothetically possible to heal through anything. The issue is just actually doing it. Laughing

As for 10 or 25 man, go big or go home. Oh course if Hodir 25 sends me back home with my head hung low, I might go pick on his little brother.

Of course this is all just wild conjecture at this point, we have to see what this pet scaling patch has in store.
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Re: Big News!

Post  Doug on Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:08 pm

I hope they bump it up to high priority, it would be horrible to know it's coming and have to wait for for ages for it like the arrows and trap launcher.
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