Resilience Cap

So now that pets will be able to gain uncritability though resilience, its going to be important for us to know exactly how much resilience we need.

The following are the amounts of resilience you need to be uncrittable against different level mobs.
2/2 Grace of the Mantis

Mob Level	Chance to be Crit	Resilience Needed
80	1%	82
81	1.2%	99
82	1.4%	115
83	1.6%	132

1/2 Grace of the Mantis

Mob Level	Chance to be Crit	Resilience Needed
80	3%	246
81	3.2%	263
82	3.4%	279
83	3.6%	296

0/2 Grace of the Mantis

Mob Level	Chance to be Crit	Resilience Needed
80	5%	410
81	5.2%	427
82	5.4%	443
83	5.6%	460

That data is great to have.

An aside question: Given that we really only care about un-crit-ability of pets for PvE tanking, are there any Pet Talent Specs that don't involve taking a full GotM (because Wild Hunt is really good and 2/2 GotM is a prerequisite)?

Durante, resi needed, is that for you or your pet?

Its pretty unlikely that someone would want to do it, but I figured I'd throw in numbers for 1/2 and 0/2 GotM just in case.

And its player resilience in the chart, I updated the chart to clarify.

Updated for 3.2. Some numbers may be 1 resilience higher than needed, due to rounding.

Great work here durante, looking forward to the encounters this opens up to us

Sorry for slight necro.

What would be the resil required for lower level mobs? I'm working on VH right now. The highest level mob there is 77. If 80 is 5.0, 81 is 5.2, 82 5.4, would 79 be 4.8, 78 4.6, 77 4.4? So, .4 after mantis? Does this sound right?

Unrelated - Any idea about miss rate against lower level mobs? I assume, again 80 is 5, 81 is 6, so would 79 be 4%, 78 3%, 77 2%?

To the best of my knowledge the combat table works the same whether the mob is higher or lower level, so for a level 77 your pet should indeed need .4% reduced chance to be crit or 1% for the hunter.

def seems pretty linier. 5, 5.2, 5.4, 5.6. So, im assuming would go backwards. But hit rating seems weird at +3. I wonder if you think the same would apply backwards, so 5, 4.5, 4, 3?

Is there a way i can test this out besides just taking a very large sample of vh attempts and see what my miss rate is against 77? I'm assuming i can maybe buy a self healer 77 to let me autoshoot him for 30 mins and see what it looks like there maybe?

Hit should work the same way as well. For a 80 attacking a 77 it should be a hit cap of 2% (5% - 3 levels). I really have no doubt this is the way it works, but I can't say 100% for sure because people don't theory craft for mobs lower than them.

Not sure if this was asked before. Gonna read thru site/forums this week. I plan on tanking my first heroic in about a month so want to make it as successful as possible so i won't have to beg people to help with my second.

But can you confirm resil works on pets? I let my pet get hit by ony, which should be level 83, and no crits with 440 resil (as to be expected) but zero crits with zero resil.

Actually, Ony is a 'low level' skull. I've seen no crits at all from other level 60 dungeon bosses, either on me or pet, so I suspect that it's not just 'Three levels higher/lower'. Just like the Horde bosses were skull level, but very definitely closer to level 83 even back when the level cap was still 70.

Go up against level-appropriate critters with that Resil 0 and you'll see crits.

Can you recommend a mob 80-82ish i can play with that my pet wont kill or it won't kill my pet to verify resil works?

The big putrid whatever-they-ares in Icecrown come in levels from 80-82. I usually find them along the tops of the big walls that stretch across the zone.

Ground-DH

Another suggestion is to try some of the first pulls in level 80 dungeons, or even heroics. Just get to some of them that have small 'early pulls' and poke at the mobs there.

Nexus Heroic has a single mob pull right off the bat that you can try near the door so you can run out. It would probably be my big #1 test idea for 'Heroic mobs'. I can't think of any other place where the first pull is a single mob.

Halls Of Lightning and Utgarde Pinnacle both have a two-mob pull, but you can probably handle them well enough to be able to run out if worse comes to worse. Plus, as level 80 instances, you can try them on normal or right into heroic. There's a two mob pull in Azjol Nerub, as well, and those first two aren't overly dangerous, though it would have to be in heroic unless you were testing a low level pet.

Halls Of Stone has a three mob pull if you're feeling froggy, that's within three steps of the door so you can escape if things go downhill. Might be a good place to practice multiple mob tanking.

Thanks for both of the suggestions. I'll try to work on this tonight to find out. I was thinking of trying a heroic as you said. Maybe i can pay a healer to help heal. The main thing is i want to get a good enough sample size with and without resiliance to find out for sure if it is working. I suppose trying with enough resil first until i see a crit then stop there.

Thanks for the tip about nexus. I didnt even think of that.

A quick test on the first mob in heroic nexus (level 81 elite) using 340 resil had hi get crit 3% of the time out of 44 hits. Going to see if i can find a better test dummy against that i won't have to run out every 2 mins.

I don't know enough about tanking to know for certain if a crit is still possible. But hopefully the mob in icecrown might be a better target dummy for me for a bigger sample size.

The bone sentinels is actually a really good tip. Hitting my pet for a max of 1k a hit and barely even have to use mend pet to keep it alive. From what i remember flying around here is there are several also. Too bad my pet is growling/swining him to death.

Level 80 elite.

Against a level 80 elite, with 340 resil, my pet was hit (over 9 fights) 1060 times. Zero crits. 5 fights with zero resil, my pet was hit 486 times and crit 10 times, or just about 2%. I'll grab a larger sample size tomorrow to see if it evens out to the expected 1%. And if it appears to go there then I'll see if i can build a resil set to cap 1% and like a point below it.

I hope this wasn't coming off as doubting you. I have been researching this for awhile and have been getting conflicting opinions so just wanted to verify it before attempting to tank heroics.

Since I am pretty sure hunter pets get full resil from their master come 3.3, won't all of these numbers change? should give us a bit more room to play around with new gear.

eggomoo wrote:Since I am pretty sure hunter pets get full resil from their master come 3.3, won't all of these numbers change? should give us a bit more room to play around with new gear.

Until 3.3, probably best to leave the charts unchanged. Once the numbers change, the charts can change. For one, this way we know how much we need up until then. For another, juuuuuuust in case Blizzard changes their mind.

With the resil change in 3.3 this build might have some merit:

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?petcalc#MczGhrMz0k0b
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent#cVbhztgRcuuestZx0ci

While the added armor might prove useful combined with the overall increased sturdiness of our pets in 3.3 i dont think the loss of Wild Hunt is worth it, i might be wrong of course but for some reason 10% more hp to me doesnt seem to be comparable to the 40% increase to my pet (i think buffs make more use of this scaling than the 10% one). Focus here is on mitigation, correct? and it would work really well if threat wasnt an issue i guess, will have to try this one out alongside the one i came up with when i first heard of the changes; http://ptr.wowhead.com/?petcalc#Mc0hbbrzbzor (Culling the heard vs Spiked Collar regarding threat is hard to judge, so i split them, but i'd miss Charge :/). My own spec would be a near cookie cutter BM but with focus on stamina and minor tweaks adapting to my gear; http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent#cVbGztgRfuhestMe0b

Yeah, sadly I think you are correct Virge, more wishful thinking than anything else on my part. Still, may be something to fiddle with.

I wouldn't take Culling the herd personally, but definitely Pet Barding and Natural Armor. The other thing is you only need 1 point in Bestial Discipline and none at all in GftT for tanking, of course if you want to do a dps/tank hybrid spec GftT is the key.

My cookie cutter would look like this:
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?petcalc#MczG0rMzbzoR
http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent#cVbhztgkfuGest0eV

A lot of the time, when it comes to focusing on pet tanking, you need to think: 'My pet is doing all the work; I'm now a living buff'. It's not a *perfect* view of it, obviously, but it helps pick out a lot of the talents.

If you are making a wholly tanking build, yeah. I'd completely ignore the new Culling The Herd in preference of Spiked Collar, number for number. The increase in your damage will help your misdirects, but that's not going to be worth the loss in other areas. And I'm totally with you on the 'Don't lose Wild Hunt'. If you want to bring in extra points, there's better places to do it.

There would be a point when 10% HP to you would be better than 40% HP carryover to the pet. But the number of HP you would need to have is probably statistically impossible to achieve. And while focus is on mitigation, again don't forget that we need the TPS. I think the increase of 30% in Attack Power *would* be quite noticeable, even though the pet's primary focus on threat is Growl and TS.

Gah, every time I look at that I wish they would de-link WH in 3.3. Those 3 talent points can go a LOOOOOONG way.

I mean, it's not like tenacity pets will be used in PvP after 3.3 will they?

Doug wrote:I mean, it's not like tenacity pets will be used in PvP after 3.3 will they?

*cough* I'll still be using Glitch (my crocolisk-hydra) in PVP, I think. Mostly because I love watching the rogues try to attack the pet and nearly end up killing themselves while they can't do crap to kill *him*.

I never claimed I was a PVP master. Just a sadist.

That said, I wish that they'd unlink it as well. It really does nothing for the pet, now that they can be made crit-immune through Resilience, when it comes to tanking. And even more annoying for me: it's not linked to RoS in cunning pets. *That's* the part that ticks me off.